Gramps - User contributions [en]

Talk:Portal:Genealogy

2010-02-07T14:18:44Z

Robin Patterson: /* Comparison of potential websites */ updating a couple of licensing changes (GFDL to CC-BY-SA) and updating a little other data

= Proposal to move genealogy advice outside this wiki =
I think we should do this, but I don't think we have found the right solution yet. Damn, I thought I had... --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

== Reasons for the move ==
* Credibility is improved by keeping advice separate from a specific software solution
* The GRAMPS wiki is relatively small and presumably gets few non-GRAMPS users visiting
* Supporting the best existing sites about genealogy reduces duplication of effort
* Involvement in more active (and diverse) websites increases the potential for collaboration and original solutions and thoughts

== Current problems with moving ==
* There are no good multilingual sites
* Internal inks in this site need to be preserved (so don't actually delete a page, leave a link to the new location)

== Wishlist for genealogy advice website ==
(Please sign your wishes so we can discuss them on the email lists)
* Fully multi-lingual (Jerome), --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
* The site must use a free license (free to use, modify and distribute) --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT) ([http://help.ubuntu.com/community help.ubuntu.com/community] uses [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ BY-SA] )
* Consensus among wiki editors on which site to use, so we can endorse it for readers as our preferred choice. --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
* Site should aggregate from other sites' content, to avoid duplication (what's this called?) --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

=== Suitable licenses ===
* [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html GPL] is OK for [http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ch-common.en.html Debian]
* [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ BY-SA v3.0] is OK for [http://help.ubuntu.com/community help.ubuntu.com/community Ubuntu], but is it OK for Debian?
* [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GFDL] is OK for Debian (but they don't like it) only if there is no [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Free_Documentation_License#Criticism_of_the_GFDL 'invariant text']. They say that in August 2008, but which version are they talking about? See if you can work it out: [http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ch-common.en.html Debian Documentation Policy (DRAFT)]

=== Unsuitable licenses ===
* Creative Commons Licenses, version 2.0 or 2.5 ([http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ch-common.en.html Debian, August 2008])
* Creative Commons BY-NC-SA, preventing commercial use is not 'free' by the Debian definition

== Comparison of potential websites ==
The column 'Redistributable with Debian?' is there because Debian has the most restrictive policy on including documentation.

{| border="1" class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align: center; font-size: 85%; width: auto; table-layout: fixed;"
|-
! Website
! License
! Positive points
! Negative points
! Redistributable with Debian?
|-
| [http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Familypedia]
| [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ CC-BY-SA]
| Has nearly 70,000 articles (and [http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Statistics about 80,000 other pages]); advanced use of categories and templates, using Semantic MediaWiki; [http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Multilingualism accepts any language (actively pursuing that since 2009)]
| Genealogy advice and records share the same wiki
| {{yes}} without 'invariant text'
|-
| [http://www.werelate.org/wiki/WeRelate:About WeRelate.org]
| [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ CC-BY-SA] (text)
| Claim 2,000,000 entries. By the registered charity [http://www.folg.org/ Foundation for On-Line Genealogy]
| Genealogy advice and records share the same wiki
| {{yes}} without 'invariant text'
|-
| [https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Main_Page FamilySearch]
| [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/ BY-NC-SA]
| FamilySearch Wiki is [only] about genealogical research advice.[https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/The_Vision:_Why_We_Built_FamilySearch_Wiki#Subjects_outside_the_wiki.E2.80.99s_scope (ref)]
| [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/ BY-NC-SA] means no commercial use.
| {{no}}
|-
| [http://www.genealogywiki.org/ GenealogyWiki.org]
| A Creative Commons license, but the license link is dead. I've written to them but had no response. URL unavailable, Feb 2010.
| Is only for genealogy information, not articles and thoughts.
| Is only for genealogy information, not articles and thoughts.
| {{?}}
|-
-
| [http://www.geneawiki.com GeneaWiki]
| [http://www.geneawiki.com/index.php/GeneaWiki:Copyright BY-NC-SA]
| + in french, very active
| - most part in french, [http://en.geneawiki.com/index.php/Main_Page english] available
| {{no}}
|-

| [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Genealogy Genealogy Wikibook]
| [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ CC-BY-SA]
| Hierarchic book structure may improve navigation to non-genealogy pages
| Not very active. Two dozen pages of genealogy advice (mostly in subpage form) and over 38,000 non-genealogical pages share the same wiki
| {{yes}} without 'invariant text'
|-

| TEMPLATE[url name]
| [url license]
| {{?}}
| {{?}}
| {{?}}
|-
|}

= Archive =
(Move old content down here if it should be kept for reference)

(Bob's question was answered three months ago. Text deleted. --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:14, 16 October 2008 (EDT))

I've just spotted the + indicating access to this discussion - should be more obvious!

It seems to me that the Genealogy Wikibook (last in the tabulated list) is the most appropriate place for this portal - perhaps even combined? The purposes appear to be similar.

The comment "little used" suggests that a few more links would be useful.
Yours sincerely,

Theo Tulley.

tj.tulley@physics.org
SFHG Member No: 11619

== Portal Genealogy - moving ==

Returning to this - FamilySearch appears to be removed from consideration because it is shown as not redistributable with Debian.

It is however an excellent facility, and I can access it using Firefox in a LinuxMint-6 system.

I'm a Newbie in these matters, but I understand that LinuxMint is a derivative of Ubuntu, itself a derivative of Debian. What is required beyond the ability to access it?

The title FamilySearch however invites confusion with the (free) Ancestry.com site.

Theo Tulley.

:: The problem is not the accessing (i.e. reading) of the information, but if you can, for example, make a dump of the wiki and distribute it on a CD or as a package, and modify the contents, etc. So it's a matter of licencing, hence the reference to Debian since they have clearly defined lines about what constitutes free documentation and what doesn't. As such being able to be "distributed in Debian" is a way to express that the resource should pass the Debian criteria for free documentation. The FamilySearch site, for example, which is one of the best in terms of practical advices and practices, uses a licence that prohibits commercial pro-profit distribuition, and as such falls short o being considered free documentation, and GRAMPS will not advice the use of a wiki whose content isn't free to use, modify and redistribute. --[[User:Fsmunoz|Fsmunoz]] 14:26, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Canada

2008-10-18T03:37:54Z

Robin Patterson: Wikia could handle this material

== Wikia could handle this material ==

Possibly better: each line could have links to the most appropriate place pages on the wiki, or census pages, or whatever. Canada is one of the wiki's less well developed areas of the former British colonies, but it's open to any enthusiast, and some of us regular tinkerers like helping enthusiasts.

Here's how our best "county links" page looks today: http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/Greene_County%2C_Ohio/links

Of course, theoretically Cyndi's list is all anyone should need in this line. See [http://www.cyndislist.com/oh-local.htm#G her Greene County, Ohio section (scroll down)]. But she's out of date. Takes [http://www.cyndislist.com/whatsnew.htm over 4 years] to incorporate submitted URLs!

Hmmm. Your Canada page has had no content added in the last 18 months. I see User:Stephanecharette has been busy with more important things such as programming GRAMPS.

[[User:Robin Patterson|Robin Patterson]] 23:37, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

Resources and related sites

2008-10-17T05:03:58Z

Robin Patterson: /* General information sites */ Familypedia

This page contains resources and internet sites that may be of interest to genealogy enthusiasts. If you have a site you would like to add, please do so.

==Genealogy organizations==

* [http://www.cdfhs-aus.com/ Campbelltown District Family History Society Inc (NSW, Australia)]. We are a community organisation born out of the need to help others in our area learn how to do their genealogical research. We also raise money to help provide more resources in the local library's Family History Room.
* [http://www.cornwall-opc.org/ Cornwall Online Parish Clerks]. This is an informal group of Genealogists who voluntarily assist others by doing lookups of U.K. records we have collected over the years. They call themselves "online parish clerks" because the major resources they use are the (ecclesiastical) parish records of births, deaths and marriages. The group concentrates on Cornwall.

==Family information sites==

* [http://www.annforbes.org/ Ann Forbes (First Fleet Convict) and Descendants]. This site is for Ann Forbes' descendants. Ann was a First Fleet Convict who arrived in Australia on the 'Prince of Wales' in 1788. There are now many thousands of descendants and quite a lot of us are very interested in her life, times and family.
* [http://www.rhodes-online.net/ Braiding/Rhodes]. This website covers the Braiding Family that came from the Isle of Wight in England to Australia in the 1800's and the Rhodes Family that came from Kent in England to Australia around the early 1880's.

==General information sites==
* [http://www.genuki.org.uk/ GENUKI] presents a large collection of genealogical information pages for England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the Channel Islands, and the Isle of Man.
* [http://rootsweb.com/ RootsWeb] is the Internet's oldest and largest FREE genealogical community.
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page Wikipedia] is a useful resource for sourcing place names and their histories. Text, maps and related images are available under the GNU Free Documentation License or a similar, freely distributable licence.
* [http://www.cyndislist.com/ Cyndi's List] Over a quarter of a million genealogy related links.
* [http://werelate.org WeRelate.org] is a free wiki-based genealogy site covering people, families, places, sources, etc.
* [http://genealogy.wikia.com Genealogy Wikia or "Familypedia"] is a free wiki-based genealogy site covering individuals, families, places, sources, etc; includes substantial copying of Wikipedia material about genealogy and places and people, then enhancing it.
* [ftp://ftp.cac.psu.edu/pub/genealogy/ ftp genealogy] is an old repository with software and other files related to genealogy.
* [http://oedb.org/library/features/250-plus-killer-digital-libraries-and-archives Online libraries and archives] that focus mainly on localized, regional, and U.S. history, but it also includes larger collections, eText and eBook repositories, and a short list of directories to help you continue your research efforts.

==Australian sources==
* [http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/ Public Record Office Victoria]: this site provides a wide range of services to enable researchers to access the public records of Victoria. Links to immigration and emmigration records such as the ''Index to Registers of Assisted British Immigrants 1839-1871'' and ''Index of Inward Passenger Lists for British, Foreign and New Zealand Ports 1852-1923''
* [http://www.clan-cameron.org.au/ Cameron genealogies]: this website celebrates those who descend from the Clan of the name of Cameron, in Australia.
* [http://members.datafast.net.au/~marrtronics/CEMINDEX.HTML Cemeteries of S.W. Victoria]: a useful collection of cemetery records. Keep in mind that before 1851, Victoria did not exist and the area was known as New South Wales.
* [http://www.cwgc.org/ Commonwealth War Graves Commission]: the Debt of Honour Register is the Commission's database listing the 1.7 million men and women of the Commonwealth forces who died during the two world wars... The register can also be searched for details of the 67,000 Commonwealth civilians who died as a result of enemy action in the Second World War.
* [http://cedir.uow.edu.au/programs/FirstFleet/index.html First Fleet] is a searchable database from the University of Wollongong. A text listing of the first three fleets is also [http://www.pcug.org.au/~pdownes/ available].
* [http://members.pcug.org.au/~pblair/auscem/ Australian Cemetery Geolocations] A list of more than 3000 Australian cemeteries, with co-ordinates and a map to help locate each one.

==French information sites==
* [http://www.europeana.eu/ Europeana] is more what could be an european librarie using [[OCR]] and open source engine [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucene Lucene]. Hungary, Portugal and France was active. Curently, seems to be a real European project.
* [http://gallica.bnf.fr/ Gallica] is the French numerical librarie with open specifications ([http://gallica2.bnf.fr/ Gallica 2] is planned for end-2008). Sounds, pictures, text are free of charges. Like [http://www.europeana.eu/ Europeana], Gallica use [[OCR]] (optical character recognition) for search.
* [http://caom.archivesnationales.culture.gouv.fr/sdx/pl/ Archives d'outre-mer] is a repository with most documents related to olds colonies. Every country where French governement was present (all continent) are listed. You may find some maps, images, data for your genealogical search.
* [http://www.geneawiki.com/index.php/Accueil Geneawiki] is a wiki related to genealogy.
* [http://geneasofts.geneanet.org/en Geneasoft] lists most up-to-date genealogical informations and programs
* [http://www.arbre-genealogique.eu/ Arbre généalogique] is a directory for web sites related to genealogy.

==German information sites==
* [http://www.genealogienetz.de/ Genealogienetz.de] is a portal for genelogy in Germany. Here you can find German genealogy-wiki, lokal online heritage books, online databases, adress books and many more

[[Category:Genealogy|All articles]]

User:Robin Patterson

2008-10-17T04:40:09Z

Robin Patterson: links.

Administrator on Wikipedia and [http://genealogy.wikia.com the Genealogy Wikia, colloquially known as Familypedia] and [http://newzealand.wikia.com the New Zealand Wikia]

[[Special:Recentchanges]]

Talk:Portal:Genealogy

2008-10-17T04:26:28Z

Robin Patterson: /* Comparison of potential websites */ Clarifying Wikia and comment querying value of "Hierarchic book structure"

= Proposal to move genealogy advice outside this wiki =
I think we should do this, but I don't think we have found the right solution yet. Damn, I thought I had... --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

== Reasons for the move ==
* Credibility is improved by keeping advice seperate from a specific software solution
* The GRAMPS wiki is relatively small and presumably gets few non-GRAMPS users visiting
* Supporting the best existing sites about genealogy reduces duplication of effort
* Involvement in more active (and diverse) websites increases the potential for collaboration and original solutions and thoughts

== Current problems with moving ==
* There are no good multilingual sites
* Internal inks in this site need to be preserved (so don't actually delete a page, leave a link to the new location)

== Wishlist for genealogy advice website ==
(Please sign you wishes so we can discuss them on the email lists)
* Fully multi-lingual (Jerome), --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
* The site must use a free license (free to use, modify and distribute) --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT) ([http://help.ubuntu.com/community help.ubuntu.com/community] uses [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ BY-SA] )
* Consensus among wiki editors on which site to use, so we can endorse it for readers as our preferred choice. --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
* Site should aggregate from other sites' content, to avoid duplication (what's this called?) --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

=== Suitable licenses ===
* [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html GPL] is OK for [http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ch-common.en.html Debian]
* [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ BY-SA v3.0] is OK for [http://help.ubuntu.com/community help.ubuntu.com/community Ubuntu], but is it OK for Debian?
* [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GFDL] is OK for Debian (but they don't like it) only if there is no [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Free_Documentation_License#Criticism_of_the_GFDL 'invariant text']. They say that in August 2008, but which version are they talking about? See if you can work it out: [http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ch-common.en.html Debian Documentation Policy (DRAFT)]

=== Unsuitable licenses ===
* Creative Commons Licenses, version 2.0 or 2.5 ([http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ch-common.en.html Debian, August 2008])
* Creative Commons BY-NC-SA, preventing commercial use is not 'free' by the Debian definition

== Comparison of potential websites ==
The column 'Redistributable with Debian?' is there because Debian has the most restrictive policy on including documentation.

{| border="1" class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align: center; font-size: 85%; width: auto; table-layout: fixed;"
|-
! Website
! License
! Positive points
! Negative points
! Redistributable with Debian?
|-
| [http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Familypedia]
| [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GFDL]
| Has over 24,400 articles (and [http://wikistats.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaGENEALOGY.htm about 60,000 other pages]) with advanced use of categories and templates; [http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Multilingualism accepts any language]
| Genealogy advice and records share the same wiki
| {{yes}} without 'invariant text'
|-
| [http://www.werelate.org/wiki/WeRelate:About WeRelate.org]
| [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GFDL] (text)
| Claim 2,000,000 entries. By the registered charity [http://www.folg.org/ Foundation for On-Line Genealogy]
| Genealogy advice and records share the same wiki
| {{yes}} without 'invariant text'
|-
| [https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Main_Page FamilySearch]
| [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/ BY-NC-SA]
| FamilySearch Wiki is [only] about genealogical research advice.[https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/The_Vision:_Why_We_Built_FamilySearch_Wiki#Subjects_outside_the_wiki.E2.80.99s_scope (ref)]
| [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/ BY-NC-SA] means no commercial use.
| {{no}}
|-
| [http://www.genealogywiki.org/ GenealogyWiki.org]
| A Creative Commons license, but the license link is dead. I've written to him.
| Is only for genealogy information, not articles and thoughts.
| Is only for genealogy information, not articles and thoughts.
| {{?}}
|-
-
| [http://www.geneawiki.com GeneaWiki]
| [http://www.geneawiki.com/index.php/GeneaWiki:Copyright BY-NC-SA]
| + in french, very active
| - only in french
| {{no}}
|-

| [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Genealogy Genealogy Wikibook]
| [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GFDL]
| Hierarchic book structure improves navigation
| Not very active
| {{yes}} without 'invariant text'
|-

| TEMPLATE[url name]
| [url license]
| {{?}}
| {{?}}
| {{?}}
|-
|}

= Archive =
(Move old content down here if it should be kept for reference)

(Bob's question was answered three months ago. Text deleted. --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:14, 16 October 2008 (EDT))

User:Robin Patterson

2008-10-17T00:39:20Z

Robin Patterson: moi

Administrator on Wikipedia and [http://genealogy.wikia.com the Genealogy Wikia, colloquially known as Familypedia] and [http://newzealand.wikia.com the New Zealand Wikia]